Episode 7
· 56:44
Welcome, bienvenidos to We Got Next, a podcast for fans, by fans, where we center athletes who identify as women, femmes, and thems, and who are changing the game on and off the court, the field, the pitch, the pool, and more.
Michelle:Hey, everyone. Happy Pride Month.
Filiberto:Yay.
Michelle:I love those memes that are going around that are like, wishing all of the homophobes, a really, and, the transphobes a really uncomfortable month.
Filiberto:I love seeing all the corporations I have an indifferent or hostile relationship to have a rainbow flag.
Michelle:Mhmm.
Filiberto:Good good for you. Yeah. Good for you, big corporations.
Michelle:Yeah. No. We need we need love is love is love is great. Yeah. But we need a little bit more than that.
Filiberto:A little more commitment to the cause.
Michelle:Yes. To stopping people from being harmed and
Filiberto:Collective liberation.
Michelle:Yep. So to kick it off, what are we drinking this week?
Filiberto:Well, on the menu tonight is my specialty cocktail. It's also a specialty cocktail of the country of Peru. It's called a pisco sour. If anybody, if anybody has had the joy of trying it, maybe write down your experience in the comment section. But, basically, the main ingredients are pisco, which is a form of liquor.
Filiberto:It's kinda it's kinda like a gin. How would you describe it? It's herbal.
Michelle:Would describe it as, like, a cross between, like, tequila and a gin. Yeah. Which I know it sounds completely polar opposite, but I can see mixing pisco and make like, subbing out of tequila for Yeah. Pisco and, like, a margarita. But I agree with you.
Michelle:It's got some herbal, like, earthy to it.
Filiberto:Yeah. That make a herbal margarita. Yeah. So we got pisco sour, simple syrup, egg egg white. I love egg white in my cocktails.
Filiberto:I don't know if y'all feel the same way.
Michelle:He's he's fancy.
Filiberto:Yeah. But they don't always you know, it's not every bar that has egg white in their cocktails, but it's just a nice it's a nice mouthfeel. And you shake it up, put some lime in there too, and it's delicious, especially on a hot Peruvian coastal day.
Michelle:Mhmm. Or a hot, humid, cloudy day.
Filiberto:Sacramento day. Yeah. That's where we're at, folks, enjoying the summer with our Pisco Sours.
Michelle:Yeah. Very refreshing.
Filiberto:And you can do different sorts of bases too. Lime is, like, one of our favorites. Lemon is also really good, but they have lots of other Yeah. Pisco sours.
Michelle:Basically, any fruit. Yeah. Passion fruit, strawberry.
Filiberto:Yeah. As long as you get the juice down.
Michelle:Yeah. What what which one did I have recently Before a Valkyries' game, it was it starts with a t. Tamar tamarind.
Filiberto:Tamarind was well, it was a flight. So one of them was a tamarind one. And then I don't remember the other ones. Cucumber
Michelle:Cucumber. Strawberry and something else. It's good.
Filiberto:Probably just a classic one.
Michelle:Yeah. And classic. Yeah.
Filiberto:Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle:Very yummy.
Filiberto:Yeah. If you get a chance, folks, try yourself a pisco sour. Enjoy that thing. Yes.
Michelle:Thank you, Bartender Fili.
Filiberto:You're welcome.
Michelle:So news of this week.
Filiberto:Yeah. What's up with the news this week?
Michelle:It's a we're we're getting we're definitely getting to the part of the year where it's gonna be a lot of women's basketball because the other seasons are kinda finishing up.
Filiberto:They're fading out of the attention span.
Michelle:Yeah. Making making some news, like softball finished up the the women's world, softball World Series. And then, like, hockey is kinda winding down too. They just had their championship, and we'll be seeing some news with the expansion teams. But It's it's kinda slow down.
Filiberto:So collegiate hockey and then profession-, collegiate softball and then professional hockey. Correct?
Michelle:Yes. Okay. I have to look up when the the pros are gonna start their season.
Filiberto:They will. And we'll put that in the show notes because we can't remember off the top of our heads. No.
Michelle:So but just one quick update. The College World Series did happen for softball, and I was really rooting for UCLA for a lot of reasons. Megan Grant is on their-, she was a two sport person. She was on the basketball program that just won the championship. So I thought it would be really cool.
Michelle:Think she's Good. Think she's terming out her college years. So it would be really cool for her to go out with two championships. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. UCLA lost in in an elimination game to Texas Tech before they got to the semifinals.
Michelle:So they kinda they exited a little bit early, earlier than I thought they would. But Texas does love their baseball and softball. So
Filiberto:They do. They do.
Michelle:And Texas Tech end up going to the finals against Texas. So it was like an all all state World Series. So but kudos to UCLA on their phenomenal season. I know Megan Grant gets a lot of attention because of her, the home runs she's hit, but there are several other players that are being drafted really high and are gonna be are gonna become like household names as well. So it's really exciting.
Filiberto:And so check it out, UCLA. If you wanna see championship sports, you gotta watch women's sports.
Michelle:Mmmmhmmmm.
Filiberto:You gotta watch women's sports. Don't be worried about it. Just check it out.
Michelle:Next up, like we said earlier, happy Pride Month to everyone. And I just want to shout out an article that was written by Marisa I believe it's Ingemi or Ingemi. Please let me know, Marisa, how to pronounce your name in the comments. But Marisa is a freelance journalist, covers the Valkyries of the WNBA with the Valkyries Beat, her own kind of work. So go ahead and we'll put that in the show notes to follow her there.
Michelle:But she's also been writing for the LA Times. She's freelancing work at a lot of different sports journalism.
Filiberto:Just another person that we follow that we really appreciate that's producing out there.
Michelle:Yeah. Exactly.
Filiberto:Thanks for your work.
Michelle:Doing a lot of really good work. And one thing that just really stood out to me this week was it appeared in the LA Times last weekend. The California track and field, the high school track and field championships were held. And it looks like Marissa was able to gain some access to AB Hernandez who is a trans athlete. And as you've probably heard this name, she has not initially by her choice, has become kind of a poster child for transgender rights, especially when it comes to athletes.
Michelle:And so AB Hernandez, this is her last year. She's graduating. So her last year to play track and field. And she's been to state championships at least last year, if not the year before. But just like it's become a thing.
Michelle:You're anticipating this huge protest. They've done that before, the, other side. This year, the MAGA person running for state superintendent of instruction was there. They held a protest outside. Steve Hilton, was running for California governor, was also at this rally.
Filiberto:So this became like a culture wars thing and
Michelle:Yes.
Filiberto:It's been completely out of proportion.
Michelle:It's been well It's
Filiberto:One of those things.
Michelle:It's been that for well over a year.
Filiberto:I'm just targeting another trans person.
Michelle:So if you can imagine, this is like your last opportunity to perform at the state. You've qualified for the states. You get there.
Filiberto:It's one of the peaks of your life. May not be the most important moment, but it's gonna be up there.
Michelle:And you're doing well in your sport.
Filiberto:Right.
Michelle:And you have to deal with the stress of trying to, like, get yourself ready mentally, physically to compete. But then also you've got all of this other circus sideshow crap.
Filiberto:And then confront all that hate and prejudice.
Michelle:And then AB's mom, I mean, and and her family who have to put up with this as well and and feel concerned for her safety.
Filiberto:All the secondary tertiary effects of all this too.
Michelle:Yeah. So this all culminated in Clovis of all places. Probably really warm that day or that weekend. But AB competed and came in first in two of her events. But Marisa the reporter was able to kind of like spend some time with AB Hernandez between events, spend some time with AB's mom and family and other supporters.
Michelle:So she got a really cool behind the scenes look at what this has been like for AB and her family. But just kind of like, it was just a very human approach to this. For a lot of people, this has been very dehumanizing. And it's been, like you said, part of this class warfare.
Filiberto:Culture war.
Michelle:Culture war. And I think it's just been it's there is a side of the political spectrum that's using this as like a wedge issue when it comes to politics. It's like fear mongering for people. But one of the you know, a part of that collateral damage is what is that doing to the human being that you're using for political gain? And AB Hernandez is an example of that.
Michelle:There are others who have, you know, become activists, advocates on their own, but a lot of them have not been. They've been outed by other people. I would call them evil doers. So I will put the link to the the article in the show notes. Just was just I've read a lot about AB Hernandez, but this one kind of like stopped me and I just really took a moment to kind of like ground in and read this and just really appreciate Marisa spending the time and whatever resources were needed for this.
Michelle:But just to really like, peel back the layers, go beyond the buzzwords, and just show AB Hernandez for who she really is, like, as a human being, as a teenager.
Filiberto:Absolutely. And I think there's a couple of things there. One is for Marisa, you know, writing the we're a former journalist, so writing those kind of pieces, we know it takes a lot of effort, takes a lot of trust in the subject and the person that you're writing about, AB Hernandez. They must have spent a lot of time just sorting that out and thinking about parameters and things. And the unfortunate thing is that Marisa has to work as a freelancer and that newsrooms aren't willing to commit to that kind of storytelling.
Michelle:Right.
Filiberto:Because it's expensive. It's expensive to develop a relationship and commit to someone, but that's what it takes to tell the right stories about people that are being targeted disproportionately. Disproportionately for no reason other than somebody wanting to get power because certainly what we learned in the Epstein file releases is that trans people aren't the ones that are out there targeting, trafficking, grooming, etc. It's these white men that are powerful and have support from other white men and have a lot of impunity. Yeah.
Filiberto:And these articles really, really bring that out and do a good job of that. And, again, I guess we can applaud the LA Times for publishing it, but their commitment to trans folks has been real bad and to complicate these issues.
Michelle:Yeah. And I mean, I think people who are familiar with the term gig economy, freelancing for writers, artists, journalists, It's very similar. It's very unstable work. It's not highly paid. So this is kind of like the devolution of professionalizing a lot of jobs out there because of the stage of capitalism that we're in. So it's another avenue for people to think about when you hit a paywall, this is one of the reasons and we have to be willing to pay for some of this good journalism that is making a difference.
Michelle:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So thank you, AB Hernandez and thank you, Marisa.
Michelle:The other piece I just wanna touch on was Odyssey Sims, who I've watched for years.
Michelle:Amazing with the LA Sparks not too long ago. She's with Dallas now, the Dallas Wings. They were playing in LA against the Sparks this past Friday. And she ended up with a left ankle injury. It looked like just a really bad roll of her ankle like bad, bad, bad.
Michelle:The team hasn't really come out and said specifically what the injury is just that they're continuing to monitor it. So maybe it's a swelling issue and they can't really tell until swelling goes down. I don't know. But it was very scary because she was she was put in a wheelchair to get off the court, and that's just never a good sign.
Filiberto:Yeah. And I think there's also the element of, like, whenever these things happen, the replays and all that stuff, like, we don't need to see that again. We can tell by the person on the ground and the stoppage play that something horrible happened. Yeah. We don't need to see it again.
Filiberto:Yeah. So that sort of, like, exhibiting of the body is just kinda really disturbing.
Michelle:Yeah. Well, as well as moments again because Odyssey played for the LA Sparks, even though they're the opponent now, players for both teams just, like, got off the bench automatically and, like, rushed over to her and just very concerned. She is a veteran. So just
Filiberto:She's played for a lot of teams, so she knows a lot of players too, presumably.
Michelle:Yeah. Exactly. She's having a great year. She's just really impacted very positively any team that she's come to, whether she started the season with them or came in mid season. But just wanna let Odyssey know that we're we're thinking about you, and hopefully, we'll see you back real soon.
Filiberto:And we keep looking around for an update, but there still isn't one. And again, this is another a disparity. Like, if this was a men's sport, we would have an MRI and all these different news releases about what their status is, but haven't heard anything. Yeah. But thinking of you, Odyssey Sims.
Filiberto:Yep. Alright. We had a full slate of games. June second, fourth, and sixth. Why don't you start us off, Michelle?
Filiberto:What happened June 2 for our our Valkyries?
Michelle:So this was a very special game. This is the first time the Valkyries played Portland, who is in their first season. Well, first re season. Portland Fire were a team for two years. And so this is kind of like a reimagined Portland team.
Michelle:But yeah, this was I mean, from my perspective, as a Valkyries fan, this was a great game.
Filiberto:It's a classic Valkyries game.
Michelle:Yeah. It was very well played. But I will say, Portland looked kinda slow coming out of the gates. They just and I've I've seen them play a few games. I was just surprised that it didn't feel like they could keep up with the Valkyries.
Michelle:And the Valkyries are not known for being one of the speedier teams, like, least when you're thinking of, like, transition. But their bench just had a phenomenal game.
Filiberto:Yeah. Portland made us look fast. Yeah. I mean, we're athletic. Yeah.
Filiberto:We're athletic.
Michelle:Well I think that exposed one of the problems for Portland, and they've struggled since this game. I mean, they're so up and down. Portland will win a game by 20 and then lose a game by 20. It's just it's really weird. And it's like, there's not really an explanation like back to backs or like home versus road.
Michelle:Like, it's it's it's very weird. They have a lot of great players. They have a lot of bigs. I think that
Michelle:might be part of the problem is that you have if you go big ball like that, they may not be as quick or as agile. Yeah.
Michelle:And that might be kinda something that Valkyries exposed in Portland. Even though they have Carla Leite, right? Which we love. We love her. She played for the Valkyries. But that's one thing just like just watching, thinking about all four quarters, it was just like Portland kinda looked like gassed.
Michelle:They just made us
Filiberto:They look kind of overwhelmed.
Michelle:They did. Yeah. They did. And I mean, yeah, was hard. Golden State's bench did really well, and our threes were going in.
Michelle:But yeah, like, the Alpha team showed up.
Filiberto:Absolutely. So I think yeah. Another solid win for the the Valkyries. I think this is one of those types of games where you just kinda have to win if you wanna get your win loss column in the right direction and get a good playoff seeding.
Michelle:Yeah. No. I think the Valkyries, they were hitting 71% in the first half on their threes. So just a big shout out to Salaun and Jocyte just doing
Filiberto:Juste! We've been practicing that one, folks. We've been looking at videos and everything. Yeah. It's been a good experience.
Michelle:They did really well in that game. And, yeah, I mean, the fourth quarter, Portland kinda they went on some runs, but and Golden State wasn't shooting very well. But I think Coach Nakase took a few time outs, kinda remind the team, hey, we gotta be defensive, especially against our bigs. We have to like just be you know, don't cheat on defense. And so they kept going, and then that kinda opened up a little bit.
Michelle:It fed their offense. Like, that's just the theme of the season. Your defense feeds your offense. So that allowed them to continue hitting their threes. And in this game, June 2, the Valkyries hit a franchise record of made threes, 18 out of 40 shots.
Michelle:And it is currently the record for the season, most made three pointers in a game so far.
Filiberto:Was this the game where their three point percentage was higher than their field goal percentage?
Michelle:I don't know what it was at the end. I know that at halftime was
Filiberto:one point. Yeah.
Michelle:We were shooting 71% from behind the arc. I was like, I was like, let me take let me take a photo of this. Like, what? But it it very well might be. Okay.
Michelle:18 of 40 is almost half. Yeah. So it's not too far. It's not very often that Valkyries shoot more than 50% from the field.
Filiberto:And, again, we almost we went I mean, whenever we score more than 80 points, we have a good shot of winning. We score 95 in this one. And then I think, you know, again, we're we really depend on our threes. So when we're shooting threes, it's really hard to beat us because it sets up everything else. You get easy drives, etc., etc.
Filiberto:Alright. Moving on. So as I mentioned before in this podcast, I've lived in Minnesota for about a decade, so I got a real soft spot. And I did watch the Lynx play in the WNBA championship in 2000 what did I say? 15,16?
Filiberto:Little bit. Can't remember. Yeah. It's been about a decade. So, you know, I always want us to win, but it's always a little harder with Minnesota.
Filiberto:So how was the Minnesota game, Michelle?
Michelle:Yeah. It's rough.
Filiberto:What did you see?
Michelle:It was it's it's a road trip for us. It's not long. It's I think we just had Minnesota and then we went to Las Vegas and played Vegas for the second time in about a week. Minnesota's rough. I mean, they're they just are so well coached.
Michelle:They have some personal changes. Napheesa Collier is out, but they do have Olivia Miles who's just having she's only a quarter of through the season. Right? So this can change. But Olivia Miles is having a really great rookie year coming out of TCU.
Michelle:You know, she's kinda a lot of people's early pick for rookie of the year. And then you that allows having Olivia as a guard allows Courtney Williams to go back and play her normal position. She's been covering guard for a couple years now. It is not her natural position. She doesn't have a lot of experience playing it, which is just mind blowing.
Michelle:Because Courtney Williams has had two or three phenomenal seasons in a row.
Filiberto:Yeah. Being the primary part ball handler point guard.
Michelle:Yes. And that's not even like what she has a lot of experience in. So that just, like, blows my mind when you, like, think about that.
Filiberto:Yeah. Her ideal position is what she's playing now, which is off guard, shooting guard.
Michelle:Which is, like, what kind of season is she gonna have then?
Filiberto:And with the and with the open looks Olivia is setting up for her.
Michelle:Yes. Yeah. And then also, you know, it kinda allows Courtney to, you know, be be a little bit more complex on her offensive runs, but also allows her to focus a little bit more on, defense than she probably was able to.
Filiberto:Well, and, it's easier for them to set up, like, off ball screens for her too to Yeah. Leave her open. So it's it's a better setup. I think the other factor for Minnesota is just the excellent play of Natasha Howard. Yeah.
Filiberto:I think people are sleeping on her. So I think
Michelle:Renaissance.
Filiberto:Yeah. Yeah. And I think people really expected to drop off because Alana Smith, the co defensive player of the year
Michelle:Mhmm.
Filiberto:Left her in free agency. But from what I'm seeing, Natasha Howard's bringing a lot and a lot more offense, a lot more attitude, I think, in the paint Yeah. Perhaps.
Michelle:A little more confidence.
Filiberto:Yeah. And, Alana Smith is great. No problem there. However, this is this is a this team looks different and feels different with Natasha Howard in the center position. And I think having watched a couple Indiana games around the same time, Indiana misses her a lot to anchor their defense, to bring some inside presence, to take some heat off of Aliyah Boston.
Filiberto:So this is to me, they're the she's the big x factor for why they've been so good. And with Napheesa Collier next to her on the inside
Michelle:I know. Can you imagine?
Filiberto:Mid range. Like, I don't even know what it's gonna look like, but it's gonna look really good.
Michelle:Well, most people most teams who if they, like, lost, you know, Napheesa player for them
Filiberto:A core rotation player.
Michelle:Yeah. They lost that person for, like, the beginning of a season
Filiberto:generational talent.
Michelle:They would not be No. In first place, which is what Minnesota is the last time I checked.
Filiberto:They're top of the commission. The commissioner's cup too. Yeah. Them in Vegas.
Michelle:Yeah. No. So it's like they got through their training camp with, like, the free agency, you know, switcheroos. But they they look really great. Yeah.
Michelle:They're coming on. And so that's, you know, that's that sucks for the rest of us. Like, they're just this dangerous team if they're already clicking and then just bringing Napheesa Collier back is just gonna be great for them.
Filiberto:Well, and even being able to draft Olivia Miles is kinda wild. Right? It became it it was because of that trade that, you know, didn't I forget who they traded with, but didn't seem like great trade at the time for the other team. Ended up really amazing for Minnesota. Like, they are so good that it's gonna be it's gonna be nearly impossible for them to have such a high pick.
Filiberto:This is their only opportunity to really get one. And they really score. I didn't I was a little skeptical of the pick, but it's been good. It's been really good for them, at least in the early going.
Michelle:Yeah. Absolutely. I was also just excited that Cynthia Cooper was calling the game.
Filiberto:Yeah. She was great. She was awesome. She was really fun. She says a lot of like she's definitely like her own person and she's confident in who she is.
Michelle:Oh, yeah.
Filiberto:It comes across real strong.
Michelle:Yeah. I just I and again, maybe this was not her choice, but I I just wish that she people like Cynthia Cooper, Sheryl Swoopes, I just wish we saw more of them announcing games. And Yeah. Maybe that wasn't in the cards for them. They didn't want it until now.
Michelle:Or, you know, this league and their media partners decided they only wanted, you know, two or four people doing this work. But it's been great to see kind of with the the media deals that WNBA has now and like the hiring that's been happening for pregame, halftime, postgame shows, but also just the calling of the shows. It's like you're getting these voices that we should have been hearing for the last ten or twenty years, but we're finally hearing, and it's just, like, really amazing to see.
Filiberto:Well, these are legends in the game that have already been shaping the experience that fans have had for the last couple generations. And now they get to shape our experience by explaining to us what's going on. And I think along with the media rights money, there's just we see this all the time. Production quality isn't quite great, and this is a little bit of an aside. But we see the increase in money towards production. We see better graphics.
Filiberto:We see better camera angles. We see better camera quality. The visual element of it is improving. So there needs to be more. There needs to be better information.
Michelle:They have a long way to go.
Filiberto:There's a long way to go, but you can see the money's being spent. Yeah. And it needs more needs to be spent.
Michelle:It's great to see that, finally.
Filiberto:Right. Thanks for the incremental increase, but y'all need to commit. Yeah. Yeah. Commit.
Michelle:I'm gonna continue your side your side tangent here.
Filiberto:Yeah. That's fine.
Michelle:Still having issues with the league pass and, like
Filiberto:Still logging in problems. Logging
Michelle:in but also watching a game and it kicks us off. And this has happened not just with League Pass, it's happening with Amazon Prime as well.
Filiberto:Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle:Yeah. There are a few others where it'll kick you off and you and it starts you at the beginning and this is for League Pass. And then if you are listening to a different stream, you have to go in and choose which stream you're listening to. So you have to reset the whole thing and then fast forward to get back to live. And this happens several times a quarter.
Michelle:So, like, it's just I gotta say it again because it seemed like it got fixed for like a week, and then now we're having problems again. So, like, I think it's great that that means maybe their servers are getting overloaded. There's way more people interested and watching. I think that's phenomenal. But they have to build out that infrastructure and invest in it.
Filiberto:Yeah. And I think this is my last part of this aside, but like, I think it's the servers getting overloaded, but I also think it's the AI economy needing to take up as much data server space as possible. I think we're getting crushed to push this out because of the AI promises of wealth for a select few and a very limited benefit for the rest of us.
Michelle:Yeah. So, yeah, I think going back to the game, the Valkyries versus the Lynx. I was I I know how how great of a coach Cheryl Reeve is. Not that Natalie Nakase is not. But Cheryl Reeve's been around for a while as a head coach.
Michelle:She's just so talented.
Filiberto:And she knows those players so well.
Michelle:Yeah. And even if you throw in some new pieces, she just just so knows how to fit the puzzle pieces together. So I and we're playing in Minnesota. So I was not feeling too high on this game. I watched it.
Michelle:Olivia Miles just had she's had some great games, so she really just kicked the Valkyries' butt. She really exposed a lot of our issues. And then we just, you know, again, exposed an issue with size underneath the basket for the Valkyries Yeah. Which we'll get to in a minute. But it was rough and I I think but I am happy that Valkyries were able to kinda keep pace and stay with the Lynx throughout the game.
Michelle:Like, the Lynx would go get up to 10, but the Valkyries would would fight back. And so I think that's great that they last season, they would have lost by 20 points. Right? But they're making strides the second season that they're able they're still not winning the games against the top tier, but they're able to play with them and and keep it close. And quite frankly, scare the other teams a little bit, keep their starters in a little bit longer, and make it more of a game well into the fourth.
Michelle:And I think that's just a really good good sign for the Valkyries.
Filiberto:No. They're competing really hard. And I think it's you know, I see this from my perspective as, like a former union organizer and activist is you do have to learn how to win. And not that these folks are losers in any way, but just that that extra gear that you need to, like, just complete it. The extra gear that you need to, like, take on somebody's best.
Filiberto:Right? Because these folks are giving you their best, and that's why you're losing games.
Michelle:Right.
Filiberto:So it just felt like it was a couple of possessions away from winning. So it was nice to see. I think the other piece of it that was really difficult to watch was how much the officiating shaped the game, especially at the end. Arguably shaped the game in the direction of Minnesota, but that's, you know, ultimately neither here nor there. There was a shitty call on Salaun that got rescinded.
Filiberto:If that tech never happened, the direction of that game moves in very differently.
Michelle:Well, and I just wanna, like, spend a little time on this. It's not like, oh, it was kinda confusing, the tech. No. Salaun hit a three and then was starting to run backwards, clapped her hands, looked at her coach Natalie Nakase. Yet she was called for taunting.
Michelle:She never looked at a Lynx player, and the league admitted that by rescinding it after the game.
Filiberto:Right. They acknowledged that error.
Michelle:Right. And so and, you know, Coach Nakase in her post game was like, I have, like, I don't know what to say about that tech because I don't know where it came from. So this is not this I don't know why that was called. And, you know, as a fan that leaves you thinking like, are there other things happening behind the scenes? Why would you call something?
Michelle:It was just so it was so egregiously wrong.
Filiberto:It encourages suspicion and encourages paranoia. And that's
Michelle:Absolutely.
Filiberto:Really where the officiating becomes a problem. If it was like a it was like a difficult to call physical play where there's a lot of contact Right.
Michelle:It could go either way. Yeah.
Filiberto:But this was so just
Michelle:Yeah. It was absurd. Yeah.
Michelle:Yeah. It was absurd. So that yeah. That's that was unfortunate. But overall, just thought it was a great know, even though it was a loss, I think the the Valkyries did much better than I thought they would, especially, again, some of those weaknesses that need to be addressed with the team, which they may have done in this last week.
Michelle:But it's good to see that, you know, it is about basketball. They keep preaching this. They want a championship. They 're focusing on building the best team they can, even if that means having to let go of people they love. But it looks like that is their focus.
Michelle:And as a fan, it's it's great to see them do that.
Michelle:And then we closed out this week with playing the Las Vegas Aces yet again. We played them at home.
Filiberto:The defending champion Las Vegas Aces.
Michelle:Yes. The A'ja Wilson Las Vegas Aces. So we played them on June 6. And what were your thoughts? What are what were your takeaways from that game?
Filiberto:Oh, man. This was another game where it felt like it was tight. It felt like a playoff game because Nakase had shortened that rotation so much. We didn't see Juste. We didn't see a lot of other players that we'd normally see.
Michelle:Amihere.
Filiberto:Amihere has been off for a couple of games.
Michelle:Kaitlyn Chen had very limited minutes.
Filiberto:Very limited minutes. It felt like there was just, like, that energy and that intensity that we didn't always see last year until the end of the season. To have that come in so soon, that's pretty awesome that they can find that gear. Again, they didn't win this game, but that they're competing and that just if a couple of possessions went a different way, they made some more free throws, this game could have been won.
Michelle:No. They were they were leading, like, a minute minute twenty out or something. And I was like, what's happening? In Vegas. That's wild.
Filiberto:Yeah. And I think as the Valkyries I think in this game, the Valkyries were using the small ball a lot more and a lot more effectively. But then, the Aces countered with big ball. I don't know how to
Michelle:Yeah. Think Small ball. I don't know. People definitely Large ball?
Filiberto:I really, like, coined that term. Super ball. We focus on small ball. We haven't coined the other side
Michelle:of it. Big.
Filiberto:Don't wanna
Filiberto:call a group of women big ball either. That's weird. Don't like it either. Too. Can we folks, can we sort this out?
Filiberto:Make this a little better. I'm a little
Michelle:bit into my I'm okay with short and tall.
Filiberto:Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle:Yeah. Shorter and taller.
Filiberto:So I I think we saw a more fluid, shorter lineup for the Valkyries. I think they were doing a little better. I just think they got overwhelmed by the size of the Aces. That was really evident. And, you know, are they going small ball because it's technically the right thing to do or because they don't have confidence in their size?
Filiberto:That's an to me, that's a question. It needs to be addressed to the trade deadline. It's certainly a barrier to if you really wanna win a championship, you have to have enough size to compete against the best teams.
Michelle:Right. And I think and this is kinda where I think some teams are just like have you know, we're starting to see we're a fourth a fourth of the way in the season. You're starting to see a little bit of separation. Not a lot. There's a lot of parity going on.
Filiberto:Which is incredible. There's lot of parity. Any game is a good good game to watch, basically.
Michelle:I think there are some teams separating themselves. And, I mean, if you watch this game, A'ja Wilson shooting, she just had a really phenomenal first. She scored a lot. I don't know how many points, but she scored a lot. She was even hitting threes, which I know she's been trying to improve that piece of her game.
Michelle:But, you know, she got open a lot to shoot those threes. They were not very contested. She did well. And then you have freaking Chelsea Gray just, like, passing behind her back some more more of the no look passes. And I feel like she's at this point in her career where she's just like, I'm just gonna, like, wild 'n out and just, like, the
Filiberto:last Chelsea Gray, are you just fucking around out there?
Michelle:Know. Are you just us? Messing She is, like, this season
Filiberto:I'm down for it. I'm just, is that what's going on?
Michelle:This season, last season, I feel like she's just kinda, like, let's just play some circus ball right now and just, like but it's working. It gets to her teammates. These are, like, absolutely highlight reel. But at this point, she's like, I'm just so good. I've accomplished so much.
Michelle:Like, let me try to do this extra thing here and, like, you know, over the back pass
Filiberto:over like she's been playing with A'ja Wilson for how many years? She's been playing with Oh, yeah. Similar. Like, she knows them so well Yeah. I'd imagine.
Michelle:No. She's gonna retire with the with the Aces.
Filiberto:Right? She's not going anywhere else. Yeah. And why would she wanna play with anybody else? Yeah.
Filiberto:Especially at this stage of her career.
Michelle:So, again, it was I was surprised that we were, again, in Vegas. Right? At home, I'd feel a little differently. But the prior game, we played Vegas in San Francisco. We were down by 20.
Michelle:Our second team kind of in the fourth was able to close that gap. We we end up losing by only 10. Yeah. But that game was a blowout. Let's be real.
Michelle:So it's it's interesting to me that we were able to compete a little better on the road.
Filiberto:A lot better.
Filiberto:A lot better.
Michelle:And and maybe that's just kinda like a pride thing, which absolutely for for the Valkyries. But it does you know, taking that step back though, it does suck to have five losses when three of those were definitely winnable games. I'm going back to, like, Chicago.
Filiberto:It's on the margins. Those are winnable games.
Michelle:Yeah. This is this is kinda that parity that you're talking about. Right? But it's like, you know, we're looking at team that could be second right now if they had won two or three of those games that they lost.
Filiberto:Well, I think a lot of what we're seeing in games too is Nakase just trying to really sort out her rotations and who plays well together. So I think, you know, there's also some I don't wanna say generosity because we don't have I don't wanna feel suggest that I have entitlement over her. But I think as a fan base, we also have to be conscientious of that, that, like, they're figuring out how to be not just a regular season winning team, but how to win in the playoffs. And you have to know your rotations really well. Who's your closeout rotation?
Filiberto:Who's your rotation against the dominant bigs? Who's your rotation against a team that's just, like, showing out on a three point line? Like, that's all things that I you can kinda you can see that in the way she's playing and subbing that she's sorting that out. And yesterday, we saw more of a playoff rotation. She shortened it.
Filiberto:She let them or not last night. Right? The last game. Yeah. She shortened it up just to see I think just to also test that too.
Filiberto:Like, what does it look like when I go to a seven person rotation, and how do they play together? And and what does that look like against one of the best teams in the league?
Michelle:Not only that, the Valkyries are down by three, had their last possession. There's an inbound pass, and I think a lot of people and, you know, possibly the Vegas defense assumed it would go to Gabby Williams. But they ended up going I think they went with Salaun.
Filiberto:Yeah. I think so.
Michelle:But Gabby was open. Yeah. And so it was kinda like an interesting, like, you know, in hindsight, of course. Right?
Michelle:But it was like, maybe that was a test to see if, you know, how Salaun would handle that situation. We well, we all know how Gabby would handle it. Right? Like Gabby has had a last minute shot in a gold medal match in the Olympics. So we know Gabby's been tested.
Michelle:She's a veteran. So maybe kind of like following your theory, maybe that was just like kind of a a test. And it's you know, Salaun was shooting really well, that was a good test. Right?
Filiberto:Well, there's an internal scouting that's happening too. Yeah. As they and also as they the trade deadline approaches. One assumes that there's they're not gonna get a great player unless they give up a good player. That's what's gonna make that difficult.
Michelle:Yeah. So that's a that's a you know, what we've touched on the last three games is a good transition of there is some news for the Valkyries this week.
Filiberto:Oh, is there, Michelle? Do tell. Is there gossip on the waiver transaction front?
Michelle:for I mean, lot of fans have been talking about trying to some size. Like, who do we trade for? Could we could we get like a
Filiberto:Some wild rumors out there,
Michelle:Shakira Austin. Could we get Cameron Brink? Like Sure. I was kinda like, those people are gonna Yeah. Be So yeah, obviously needing some size to help box out underneath the basket, help Gabby Williams out.
Michelle:So the Valkyries did sign Nadia Fingall. She used to play for Stanford. She's been playing overseas recently. So she's a six four center who is gonna be coming to the Valkyries. I'm not sure when she might start, how soon she might start.
Michelle:But I think that's and she's also she's good at shooting threes. She has that in her her game. So I think that is gonna go a long way. Unfortunately, they had to waive one of their developmental players for that. But hopefully, this is kind of giving that, you know, one, two kinda hits extra help on their rebounding.
Michelle:The Valkyries have actually been really good at rebounding, but this helps, like, kinda spread that workload around.
Filiberto:And I think you might see more, like, zone defense schemes. You're gonna see some different looks, and I think that's what is gonna be really helpful for Nakase too. Like, she has an amazing problem, and she's seems intelligent enough and sophisticated enough to deal with it in that she has a group of extremely talented players that have varying and complementary skill sets. What do you do to figure out a five people on the court at once? Right?
Michelle:Yeah.
Filiberto:And now you're throwing in a six four center. So, yeah, it offer it it encourages the opportunity to expand the offensive system and the defensive system. So, again, looking forward to that creativity and that that usage and that combination that she does so well.
Michelle:Yeah. It'll be exciting. Hopefully, we see Nadia play soon.
Michelle:Alright. It's the time of our episodes where we kinda have our our interruptions or our
Filiberto:We got we got thoughts, folks.
Michelle:Yeah. Our our hot takes, if you will. We've got some good ones this week.
Filiberto:Do we, Michelle?
Michelle:We do. I think we do. I think they're great.
Filiberto:I love our humility. It's important.
Michelle:No. I mean, just like great topics. Right?
Filiberto:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Michelle:Like, just really important things happening that might fly on the radar for a lot of people or I guess it's a good time to kinda do a deeper dive into beyond the tweets or whatever people might have seen. So why don't you, tell us what's up?
Filiberto:Alright. Mira, homies. This is what's up from my perspective. So I don't know if y'all have seen this, but there were rumors going around and, Sportico actually published an article about this that the WNBA was gonna use a two hundred and fifty year patch for the anniversary of the country in the all star game. And the update that Sportico had, I'm gonna read this, is "nine hours after the story was published and after a flood of criticism on social media, a WNBA spokesperson," they couldn't even put her name on it, which is a
Michelle:Oh, did not want their name on it.
Filiberto:That's folks from a we used to we also used to be communication professionals, not just journalists. So, yeah, that's a big red flag. "Following statement, like other major sports leagues, we are exploring we're exploring how
Filiberto:best to commemorate the country's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary. Nothing has been finalized at this time. The statement came more than thirty six hours after Sportico asked the league for comment."
Filiberto:Yeah. That doesn't always happen in journalism, folks. They got freaked out. So so they've avoided a controversy because they're waffling on it, but seems to like seems to be the fact that they're still considering it. In response on Twitter, Breezy Brii, Brianna Turner, had this to say.
Filiberto:I'm gonna read that off too because it was it was a hot it was a hot take. And I was just, like, scrolling on some other stuff. I was, like, looking for I don't know if Crypto knows or something, but I just came into this. Okay. So she says, "Whoever called for the WNBA All Star uniforms to have a USA two fifty patch should have thought that through considering the WNBA players who would have been free would have been free 200 considering..." no oh, sorry.
Filiberto:"Considering no WNBA players would have been free two hundred and fifty years ago, the majority wouldn't even have their freedom a hundred years ago." And then she also goes on to say, "We are some of the most elite female athletes. Two hundred and fifty years ago, we would have been breeders or in the field working all day." Woo. Be so serious right now.
Michelle:Woo, child.
Filiberto:Damn. Damn. Breeders are in the field working all day. And working is a loose term in that context as well. But the thing that I thought about a lot in in thinking about that statement and reading about it and just reading it over and over again and just appreciating that, a, a leader in professional sportsdom was saying that.
Filiberto:She's a leader with the union. She's been a champion with Notre Dame in the past. Been a great player for years in the W. That her that she's willing to use that position to speak truthfully about what she sees. And if you look at her Twitter, she's always been doing this.
Filiberto:This is not the first time. She had a great piece about transgender athletes not being a threat to her. And that was a piece that we also pointed to earlier. But I think what it what it kind of talks about too is the recent destruction of the Civil Rights Act, the 1968 Civil Rights Act in The United States because of the Supreme Court, the increase in racially focused gerrymandering, just the absolute like denial of rights for trans folks, for Black folks, for undocumented folks, or folks that appear to be undocumented by this administration. So when we're thinking about democracy in this country, we had a high point.
Filiberto:It started with the Civil Rights Act in 1968, and it's just been denied. We've had forty years of that. That's it. We're done.
Michelle:Mhmm.
Filiberto:We are back to something else. We are back to something that was we are back to a country that was started to protect slaveholding and the denial of rights of both Black, indigenous, and there were also European slaves too at that time, but there were a smaller community, but mostly targeting Black and indigenous people.
Michelle:And withholding the rights of women.
Filiberto:Withholding rights of women. And not even acknowledging the rights of queer folks. I mean, that was a whole nother disaster. So for the entire history of this country, and before it was even founded for almost one hundred years, slavery was the law and the basis by which revenue was created.
Michelle:It was the economy.
Filiberto:It was the entire economy. And once you end slavery, what you did was you also created convict leasing. And the wildest thing that I found just looking over like where we're at as a country and what democracy actually is as a gear, as a thing that's only been around for such a short time, is that a lot of the protections given to Black folks in the thirteenth, fourteenth, the fifteenth amendment actually ended up giving more power to white people. Right? So you create a regime where you can arrest Black people, put them in prison leasing programs, and take away their voting rights.
Filiberto:And when you so people don't always know this, but there's also a dynamic called prison gerrymandering where when every ten years when the census is counting how people live in a district to figure out where your house representatives are, your representatives, your congressional representatives, it also includes prisoners. Prisoners can't vote for their representatives, but they get counted. So that these rural districts have actually more power, disproportionately more power because of the incarceration of mostly Black people.
Michelle:Well, also the fact that prison inmates are used as unpaid labor. Yeah. Or very, very, very low paid labor.
Filiberto:Which is what the thirteenth amendment established. That you can put people in slave like conditions if and only if they have committed a crime. So then crimes became Blacker.
Michelle:And I'm just gonna throw out here, there have been efforts in California, one of the most progressive states allegedly in this country. There have been efforts to start paying inmates, like actual minimum wage laws in this state, and it has not made it through the legislature.
Filiberto:Yeah. Not even really taken seriously. Right. And I'm you know, I did a lot of reporting on prison labor in Minnesota, and I was one of first reporters to do it. So I also have a lot of intimate knowledge about how that works out.
Filiberto:And, that started with the thirteenth amendment. And then Citizens United, corporate personhood started with the fifteenth amendment. So protecting Black people, but also giving white people disproportionately more power. So, you know, I was just taking on the brilliance of Brianna Turner, and then also just thinking through, you know, what she what the the profundity of what she's saying, like the depth of what she's saying. And then certainly speaks to the experience of Black folks in quote unquote democracy in The United States, a country that was started by slaveholders and was designed to protect the rights of slaveholders over anybody else.
Michelle:Well, this is coming on the heels of the US Supreme Court saying, yes, you can gerrymander matter for white people. Yes. And this is like applying to Southern states where the majority of your population is Black, but all your representatives are white. Or or pinpointing now that some, you know, areas of those states are finally getting some Black representation voted in, elected in. And now whites are, like, upset about that, and they're trying to gerrymander and, like, go backwards now that, you know, people of color are finally gaining some of those footholds in representation in power, in those halls of power.
Michelle:Is the kicking and screaming of white people.
Filiberto:Yeah. And I think part of it is too, like, this is what we're seeing also is the the last vestiges of white supremacy. I mean, it's a dying ideology. It's a self destructive ideology. It's a way of thinking about the world that closes you off from your own self and everyone else.
Filiberto:Like, it's it's it's a cancer. And it's dying off and it's fighting its way out, kicking and screaming. But I do believe that. I do believe this is whiteness dying Yes. And panicking about its own emulation.
Michelle:Well, they're gonna hold on to power as long as they can, and they're gonna cheat and lie and steal as long as they can like they did.
Filiberto:Have done.
Michelle:Have done.
Filiberto:With the formation of country y'all. It's not anything new. Mhmm. So, yeah, having that patch on a jersey of mostly bBlack and queer players is an abomination. And
Michelle:I think like, I understand I understand the numerology of this. Yes. The United States is gonna be turning quote unquote 250 years old. But I think what's really astounding to me is I do not I'm not in a celebratory mood because we have certain forces that are trying to destroy democracy. Yeah.
Michelle:And that's one of the things that the jingoists of this country promoting is that we're like this rare kind of representative democracy or representative republic, whatever you wanna call it. But like, that it was like this new government when it started and now it's lasted two hundred fifty years. It's like, well, it hasn't it hasn't like, it's not been a democracy for the vast majority of people who live here these days. Right? It's been a democracy for white male landowners for a long time.
Michelle:And so
Filiberto:And it's a it's a system of coercion and it hasn't been like the US has been thriving or anyone else has benefited from it, writ large.
Michelle:But I think it's, like, disturbing to me, and it's hard for me to wanna celebrate that. I do love this country. I have chosen to stay in this country. Others have been able, you know, to leave. And I wanna stay here.
Michelle:I wanna fight for this, but I'm not gonna celebrate two fifty years. This country has not been great for the vast majority of us. You said, it's not been great for women. It's not been great for trans or queer people. It's not been great for people of color, indigenous people.
Michelle:And also we want to celebrate, we wanna turn back the clock, we wanna talk about the greatness of the establishment in this country. When again, we're trying to take away from that democracy these these brilliant founding fathers and their idea of a government. But you're also trying to pick apart that government and make it authoritarian and make it almost a monarchy, which is what allegedly these people were fleeing. So, like, it's just it's, like, just the dumpster fire of what this is and how people can try to rationalize this is just, like, astounding to me.
Filiberto:Yeah. Two hundred and fifty years is barely five generations. The I mean, the the thing the hottest take from Iran during this war with them, and not that I'm supportive of the Iranian government necessarily, but they were like, yo, we've been here for our civilization has been here for thousands of years. You motherfuckers have been here for two hundred and fifty. Yeah.
Filiberto:You might kill every Iranian in that country, and they're still gonna survive somehow. Yeah. Like, that's that's real. That's durable. We're just a bad idea that was given away too much power.
Michelle:Mhmm.
Filiberto:Anyway, this is still a Valkyries podcast, but, you know, it's related. Basketball and basketball players said this. And, you know, this is again why this podcast made sense and why watching so much women's basketball made sense to me is these are just really great people to pay attention to and learn from and be observant of. And trying to highlight the things that we think are the most interesting are it's just a fun exercise for us because it strengthens our relationship to the parts of the game that we just love the most.
Filiberto:What's on your mind this week, Michelle?
Michelle:Well, I was gonna say it's kinda it's a little transition to what I'm gonna say. So I'm gonna stop you right there. This is my this is my interruption. But it's kind a good interruption, I think. Talking about, you know, people using their platforms to speak their values and talk about what's important to them.
Michelle:For those of you who've been, you know, paying attention, not paying attention, Natasha Cloud played with the New York Liberty last year and she struggled to find a place in free agency. There was a little bit drama that surrounded this. And she's been kind of quiet. She found a home in Chicago with the Chicago Sky. So her first kind of chance at like an interview talking about what happened to her this past offseason was with Sue Bird's Birds Eye podcast.
Michelle:So I just wanna like uplift this episode for people to listen to. We'll have the link in the show notes. But I highly recommend this episode. Natasha does talk about what it was like for her in free agency. And it's a very thoughtful conversation between the two of them.
Michelle:Natasha discusses her activism and what it was like to be mysteriously dumped by her her agency, her her agent days before the expansion draft. So this very questionable timing.
Filiberto:And mysteriously and abruptly.
Michelle:Right. And for reasons that do not make sense. And she gets into detail.
Filiberto:That seemed obvious, but we didn't have enough evidence to suggest it. Right.
Michelle:You know. So and then also kind of being I'll use these terms. She did not use these, but I'll I'll use it that Natasha was, in my opinion, being led on by the New York Liberty. She talks about, you know, playing in Unrivaled and with her other kind of Liberty teammates. They would go to dinners once the team execs executives or coaches came into town to like, hey, we'll be there for the weekend in Miami to cheer our Liberty people on their teams, their Unrivaled teams.
Michelle:Let's all go to dinner and have meals together. And she was with them. And so like, there was this kinda, family. Sure. Free agency was gonna be like a Hunger Games.
Michelle:Right? It's gonna be massive.
Filiberto:There were a lot of free
Filiberto:agents, apparently. But
Filiberto:She's a top player.
Michelle:But she was working out after Unrivaled. She was working out, spending time in the gym.
Filiberto:She had a great Unrivaled season.
Michelle:Trainers. Yeah. And so she was she was on the New York Liberty campus, like, using their facilities, you know, making it known. She lives in New York. She wants to continue her time in New York if they'll have her And just talk you know, just ask, please don't blindside me.
Michelle:I've been blindsided before. Please don't do that. Let's have conversations. I'm gonna you know, don't run away from me because you don't like confrontation. Like, let's have this adult important conversation.
Michelle:And they just were not they refused to do that. They weren't capable. So just like listening to the podcast, it really felt like between her agency and the New York Liberty, they not that they were colluding necessarily. Yeah. I don't have any evidence of that.
Michelle:But it felt like these entities were doing their best to kind of like lead her on and just like destroy her livelihood. And for not a basketball reason.
Filiberto:It just seems really personal in the timeline of everything invites suspicion.
Michelle:Yes. They were purposely trying to fuck with her ability to earn a living and to continue playing in the WNBA. Not a basketball reason. She's still a phenomenal player. She had a great season, like you said, with Unrivaled.
Michelle:She helped the Liberty to a championship. So, like, let's cut the crap here.
Filiberto:Well, there's also that fucked up statement from the Liberty GMM. I was like, Natasha Cloud is an amazing player. Somebody should sign her. It was
Michelle:like, You you can sign her.
Filiberto:Oh, fuck. That is guilty as fuck, dude. Yeah. What are you doing? That's a cover your ass move if I've ever then read one.
Michelle:And then putting out the bullshit narrative that she was asking for too much, please. No. Please. No. Please, child.
Michelle:So
Filiberto:She's barely getting over the minimum. Yeah. Please.
Michelle:And this is a really good conversation. They they talk about more than just, you know, the free agency impacts. They talked about Natasha's time during in her advocacy post the George Floyd murder in Minnesota. And how she's been fighting for equality since then. And she does note that the WNBA was great, was kind of one of the leaders, not necessarily the league but the players.
Michelle:Were a leader in the wake of these horrific murders of people of color by police. And she notes that the W's gotten away from that. And she wants to see them do better going forward. She also talks about, you know, she's she's she did some of some endorsements and some work with Mamdani in New York, our new you know, New York's new mayor. And so she talks about maybe politics is in her future.
Filiberto:That's exciting.
Michelle:And just not just really saying, hey, we have perspectives. Those of us who grew up in poverty or you know, having to, like, fight our ways, working class. And we do not see that in our representation, which is absolutely accurate.
Filiberto:And she's Jordanian. She's I don't I don't know about how she was raised, but she certainly has a non white perspective of background.
Michelle:Yeah. So just making sure like people like the whole like lived experience of people, the realities of what's going on in this economy. It's just something she's like, I don't see that in our representation. I'd love to like, you know, help bring those voices. There are lots of people who are running and trying to change that wave.
Michelle:She's one of them. And I would absolutely vote for her hands down 10 times a day.
Filiberto:Yep. That's exciting.
Michelle:then just a quick shout out to Sue Bird. It is her podcast, but I I do appreciate that she kinda let Natasha talk. Like, you know, kinda asked her a question or gave her a prompt, but let her tell her story. And it was just great to not have these interruptions or these interjections and just like let Natasha have that space. Again, it was her first time really spending some time talking about what happened to her and what
Filiberto:I mean, it's basically an exclusive.
Michelle:How it impacted her. Yeah. But yeah, a lot of people will kind of like you have to go to fight that temptation, that urge to like you know, whether it's like adding your perspective or, you know, what you thought of what happened to Natasha. It's like, that's great. But I'm just allowing Natasha to process what had happened to her and share that with fans, I think was really important.
Michelle:And just really appreciate Sue for kind of like taking that step back and not saying as much and letting Natasha have that. Is really important, especially especially for white women to, like, take note of that and do more of that.
Filiberto:Well, I think it's interesting, you know, I've I didn't listen to the podcast, but in what you described and what you described before, it's interesting, you know, to to sort of observe Sue Bird in her post career days, like, just sort of letting her identity in very slow and interesting ways become more obvious or become clearer. Like, the position she's take like, you don't have to by just having Natasha Cloud as a guest, you're taking a position, a very strong one. Besides that, without even saying anything, you've done a lot, and you've risked a bit too. So, you know, good for her. Just using this period to, like, sort out her identity and perspective on things.
Michelle:Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Make sure you guys listen to it.
Filiberto:Yeah. And we'll put in the show notes, obviously.
Michelle:Thanks for listening and building community with us. Make sure you're following us on Instagram at pod we got next, and subscribe at wegotnextpod.org.
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